Read Book XI
text available at http://www.ccel.org/ccel/augustine/confessions.xiv.html
Focus on
1. How can we perceive past, present and future?
2. Why is it difficult to describe time?
3. What's the relationship between God and time?
Journals due on March 16.
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Why is it difficult to describe time?
ReplyDeleteThis text reminds me of Aristotle’s book X when he spoke about contemplation being the best life. It concluded with no absolute understanding of contemplation being the highest happiness. This is reminiscent of the present question, why is it difficult to describe time? In answering this question, I find that “time” has no absolute understanding as well. According to Augustine, time and creation are cotemporal. He basically analyzes the subjectivity of time throughout the text.
After reading Augustine Book XI, I find it difficult to describe time. Time is theoretical. Because of its subjectivity, there is no absolute understanding of time. However the function of time can be useful or oppressive for man. To exemplify, time is just another system of control. Over the year’s, time has been used to control and constrict the people. For example, people face consequences when they don’t abide by man’s law of time. Further, time is a systematic tool used to consolidate an agenda. On the positive, without the tool of time people would have no structure in their lives.
In my opinion, time is illusory, therefore almost impossible to describe. I believe if life was permanent there would be no such thing as time. According to Einstein’s theory of relativity, there’s no such thing as space and time.
Kennee McFadden
Although it was very difficult to analyze the reading,I did understand Augustine description of time. Augustine explains God as first in creation when time started and the nature of God's relation to the beginning has nothing to do with time. Augustine makes it clear that a person cannot take the words from genesis literally, but rather spiturally. Augustine comes to a point in book XI where he realizes that there is a misconception of God's creation in Genesis, there was no particular time in which the universe was created, because to God, there is no such thing as time. Augustine raises a question that I also have thought about, "But if it was the eternal will of God that the creation should come to be, why, then, is not the creation itself also from eternity?"
ReplyDeleteTo people today time is everything and very important, but if you were to ask the common person why time is important they would not be able to explain why. Althought they think they know. Time cannot be explained thouroughly, maybe time is something man has made up to determine many things such as seasons, months, births, and recording history. The question of time and its importance is difficult to define, and is a question that may never be answered.
How can we perceive past, present and future?
ReplyDeleteIn trying to get an explanation of time, Augustine borught in the past, present and future to examine and possibly come to a conclusion about the true understanding of it. In these modern times, the past, present and future seems very straight forward in meaning. After reading Confessions book XI, I realized that there are more points to take into consideration when reminiscing and thinking of any incident or event.
As great as Augustine was, he felt ignorant when he was trying to get a absolute and concrete discription of time. Augustine seemed to trust that God would lead his toughts into getting the correct idea if what time is. When we speak of time, we may refer to past, present and future. Some People's idea of the past is; that it is gone and has made way for the incoming future. In contrast, future too becomes the past. Also, memories of someone can make that person well alive and present in your mind now. On the other hand,it is the past because the events of those memories took place in the past.
For me, it does not matter because life goes on regardless. Although I did not clearly perceive the past,present and future, I do strongly agree with Augustine in the way that he trusted and believed in God.
Kunti Hanif
i think that time is so hard to descibe because nobody really knows where it came from. even thou in the B.C. time civiliation used the sun to tell what time of the day it was.. but the question is where did 1-12 come from? because again in the B.C.time they where only able to use the sun as Morning, Afternon, or Night. i do believe that there is a relation between the god and time,the days we lived had to progress some way and the only logical answer is the sun. and i agree augustine believe in god, since i believe that there is a god as well. If there was not god how did the solar system formed? okay lets there a a random events that occured that made the solar, that still had to come from.
ReplyDelete2. Why is it difficult to describe time?
ReplyDeleteI believe it is in our human nature to measure every aspects of life. We measure our financial wealth by the count of money. We measure our social status by the amount of friends and connections we possess. Same thing applies with time by counting how much “time” has pasted since our birth. However for something that does no longer exist, it is difficult or impossible for us to actually grasp. For example the “past” or moment which something happened a while ago no longer exists, which therefore can’t be proven because it does not exist. Furthermore the “future” can not be explained because it has not existed yet.
anitra smith
ReplyDeletewhere does time come from?,and who decided that it was from 1-12,why? i know it was before b.c but why?.in human nature we as in people only have control on what can happen and what has happen. we determin who we choose to hang out with(social status).our wealth of being, determin on how much we make as in money.you can only look apond the feature an not whats already done, we can only wish for the past back to chage what has been done. there are two days out the week that are important, did you know? (yesterday and tomorrow) if you regret what has happen and not happy form yeaterday, you can always forget and start new tomorrow, you can only determin and be happy with the out come of that day.
Can we really decide what is the past, present and the future. only god can, Augustine said god created time which in turn created the past, present and the future, but the past has ceased to be, the future is not yet, and only the present exits but it is also hard to pin down. But if this is true, how can one speak of history, or how can prophets foresee future events? The human memory retains images of past events. Perhaps some can predict the future by reading likely signs of what will happen.but he also stated that time does not exits. nonetheless, time would seem to have some sort of existence, since we can all speak about it and even measure it.but Augustine still have a problem because how can we measure something that don't have a duration only the fact that we measure time as it passes through the present moment.
ReplyDeletewhy is it difficult to describe time?
ReplyDeletei think time is hard to describe because we have no control over time.we cannot go back to the past or predict the future but we live in the present and that is because time allow us to do that.in today society for most people time is money the work you get done faster and in less time is better.we cannot change time or change its function its there to guide us.also it is hard to describe time because we do not understand the basic concept of time like for example why is time relevant to us.In my opinion i think only god have full control over time and he determine the past,present and the future.and also only god can determine the use of time.
In Book XI, Augustine wonders how God created the heaven and earth. Even though Augustine did not considered himself a wise man, he started analyzing everything God created that was on earth to see how God formed the heaven and earth. Augustine puts his memory together of his past life, his present experiences, and his enthusiastic desire to comprehend the mystery of the creation of heaven and earth. Therefore, he considers the mode of creation and shows that de nihilo was responsible for the creation of heaven and earth, and that God did not have to do anything with this. Likewise, he describes the creation and time as temporal. Book XI can be compared to book X where Aristotle tries to explain that contemplation is the highest happiness a person can reach in its life. Just like Aristotle tried to explain his reason why he considers contemplation is the best life, Augustine also tries to find a reasonable explanation of how heaven and earth was created and that time is an important element of this creation. Moreover, I believe that it is very difficult to perceive past, present and future because what matters is present, because past has become history and future we cannot really tell what is going because we are not aware of the things God prepared for us. Augustine said that whatever may be the manner of this secret foreseeing of future things, nothing can be seen except what exists, and what exists now is not future, but present, I agree with Augustine because we cannot tell what is going to happen tomorrow with a precise respond.
ReplyDelete1. How can we perceive past present and future?
ReplyDeleteIn book eleven of Augustine Confessions, Augustine presents many questions to God about time. Exactly what is past, present and future? and how can you tell?
He says past is something that already happened, or something that is in your memory that does not happen anymore. Future is something that has not happened yet, and sometimes you know that it will happen, for example, the sun rising. You can tell that it will happen, becasue it always does, but it has not happened yet at that moment. Present is what is happening to you right now. Augustine says "nothing can be seen except what exists", this quote means that what you are seeing is what exists right now, which is the present, and if it is not happening right now it is not the present.
Although Augustine seems kind of clear about what is past, present and future, Augustine is asking God to explain what it is exactly since God created the world and only he may know the answer. It is a very difficult question to answer, because there are so many variables affecting the definition of what is past, present or future.
Isabella Soteldo
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete1. How can we perceive past present and future?
ReplyDeleteIn book eleven of Augustine Confessions, Augustine presents many questions to God about time. Exactly what is past, present and future? and how can you tell?
He says past is something that already happened, or something that is in your memory that does not happen anymore. Future is something that has not happened yet, and sometimes you know that it will happen, for example, the sun rising. You can tell that it will happen, becasue it always does, but it has not happened yet at that moment. Present is what is happening to you right now. Augustine says "nothing can be seen except what exists", this quote means that what you are seeing is what exists right now, which is the present, and if it is not happening right now it is not the present.
Although Augustine seems kind of clear about what is past, present and future, Augustine is asking God to explain what it is exactly since God created the world and only he may know the answer. It is a very difficult question to answer, because there are so many variables affecting the definition of what is past, present or future.
Isabella Soteldo
Comment to Alea:
ReplyDeleteI agree with you, because time is a very difficult thing to analyze and to put a definition on, but i also think that even though it is hard to analyze it does exist. Yes, probably when you ask people what it is they may not be able to define it, but i do not think that its made up, just to see when a person's birthday is. Time defines everything; history and life. i think it is very important to know time.
Isabella Soteldo
1.How can we perceive past, present and future?
ReplyDeleteWe can perceive past, present and future in these ways. The past is behind us and we can never get it back, while the present is now and we can do what we choose but it will soon be in the past. The future is coming so we can think of what we can do in that future but we can change it when it becomes present, but once it passes its over and life goes on. Time will continue to go so all that matters is what we do with the “time” using the past to help us make good future choices in the future which is to become present.
2. Why is it difficult to describe time?
I believe its difficult to describe time because we do not understand when it began or when it will end. Time will continue to move even when we die because it works that way. We find it hard to describe time because we can't go back and do what was in the past over which is so amazing because if we could time would be a whole different concept of what it is now. We can never truly grasp time because were never there to its see its beginning (past), we only see it now (present) and we'll never know its end (future).
Time is a very hard thing to understand. From readings Augustine's reading it seems like time is also comparable to absolute justice. In class we were searching for this absolute justice it doesn't seem to me we found an answer, but it doesn't mean we don't have a we to measure it. Just as we could gauge and measure justice to see whether or not it was just or unjust it seems time is also the same way. Both Time and justice are intangible things which make them hard to perceive.
ReplyDeleteAugustine also mentions our measure of time, that we use our own present time to mention the past and future. This is a difficult to understand. We use measurements of time don't we? I understand when Augustine speaks of not being able to measure because it has already past or it hasn't but it's still being measured. Don't humans measure things in our own measurement and in comparison to our own lives?
Augustine also speaks of the relationship between God and time. For God, there is no past or future. Time is just things one "thing" that he has created. If God had created time, what came before that? How could we understand what God was doing before he created everything. I'm also interested in this one question Augustine asks of. Augustine asks about what God, our Creator was doing before he created everything, if our Creator had been standing idly by, why didn't he continue to stand idly by? It's something that really stands out in the text to me.
-Kaven Kim
2. Why is it difficult to describe time?
ReplyDeleteIt is very difficult to describe time in many different reasons. A reason being that for we don't actually know when time begins. The only way for us to have knowledge of when time began is to have actually been there and expereience it as it was being created. The book pointed out some crucial points about that when it stated heaven and earth was the creations of god and that it couldn't actually create itself because there was no place for heaven and earth to be created. There was also a part that talked about water and air not being able to create the two because they came from them being created. We know to every start there must come an end, but for us time is just ongoing because we have no actually set time when it ends. We do know what the present since it is defined as this very momment and time. In my opinion, it all boils down to theory because we have no actual knowledge of how time begins and when it ends.
Syron Singh
Though Albert Einstein explains time in the theory of relativity, I believe that this information is agnostic. I don't believe there is a true understanding of the concept of time. Scientist may come up with different theories but how can these theories really be proven? Like may theories, I believe we as human beings have to come up with answer to question that we truly don't know, this is because we cant keep admitting that we don't know certain things. I do feels that time is used by man for the purpose of keep organization of the world, historical, and future events. Its also used as a tool for manipulation of peoples life's and their way of thinking.
ReplyDeleteI do believe that time in fact exists.
ReplyDeleteIn the text it's suggested that time doesn't really exist. People precive time but they aren't seeing things clearly. God is supposed to be eternal and to him everything is happening at once. Our perception of time is due to our distance from God.
I believe that if there is a God, he is aware of time and feels it passing but it doesn't mean as much to him as it does to us. I only really know how I think and I am always aware of time passing by. I think about the different stages in my life and how much time I have to get important things done in my lifetime. For God, these things wouldn't be as big of an issue because if you are eternal then time is meaningless. I think that the only time he would stop to consider such a thing is when considering our point of view.
The relationship between God and time is more about “eternal” time, rather than past, present and future time. In the beginning there was the “word,” in Genesis, but this is not a normal word because time would have had to exist before God created it. Again this word is an eternal word. Time did not exist until the created world was formed as there is no time with God. The definition of eternal is timeless, without beginning or ending. The irony is that God is eternal and has nothing to do with time. Augustine believed that God is wisdom and wisdom is the beginning and in Genesis it says that in the beginning heaven and earth are made. In truth, there is no relationship between God and time. The relationship between God and time can really only be measured by the idea of our soul. Time exist only in the soul and the soul is eternal. From the reading, it seems that Augustine believed that God was only the present, not the past or the future. With the idea of time being only the present, it gives time only the idea of the here and now. In modern times, time is a man made concept and is measured by clocks and calendars. Time can be measured by a sunrise and a sunset, and birth and death, but only in our souls is there an eternal time.
ReplyDeleteBook XI of the confessions deals with the nature of time. St. Augustine begins his inquiry of time by questioning its connection to God. Augustine seeks to answer the question: If God is eternal, how can he live exist in a time bound universe? Augustine solved this problem by stating that God does not exist in time. He argues that God created time when he created the world, and that only humans can conceive of time. Thus, according to Augustine, God lives in a different world were time does not exist. This solves the first half of the problem; the second half, however, deals with how time functions in the universe we live in.
ReplyDeleteTo understand Augustine's argument we need to depart from the beliefs we have about time. Augustine talks about time as though it were a concept that can be measured and sensed. Thus when he talks about time he is talking about something that exists. Thus, for example, we will say we see a green chair until we no longer see the chair. Just as we can use our five senses, Augustine feels that humans believe we can measure time. Yet rationalizing how we can measure time is not so easy. He goes on to argue that we do not measure time as easily as we can see a green chair. Augustine believes that time intervals do not exist. Rather, that we understand time through memory (past), attention (present), and expectation (future). This is his answer to how we can understand time, although he is not too convinced about it.
The past, present, and future can be previewed as something that happened, something that is happening , or something that has happened. It is difficult to preview these three instances in time because everyone defines time differently. The day may be separated into hours, weeks, into days, months into weeks, and years into months. That is why it is easier to preview the past, present, and future as stated before. It is difficult to describe time because everyone does not experience time the same way. What may be a long time to someone it may be a short time for someone else. Someone may say “a long time ago” but it may have just been the day before, but to that person it could have truly been a long time. It seems that a better way to describe time is to say the exact time period passed or the time period that will pass and let the person decide how long that really was.
ReplyDeleteLuis Mercedes
2. Why is it difficult to describe time?
ReplyDeleteIn Book XI confessions, it deals with the nature of time. St. Augustine begins with his perception of time, by first questioning its connection with God. St. Augustine sought out the answer to the question with, “If God is eternal, and how can he live exist in a time bound universe?” His problem was rectified by him theorizing that God does not exist in time. I agree with St. Augustine, in that God had created time. God is a supernatural being and the thought of his existence is everlasting. He was there in the beginning when he created the world and undoubtedly will be existent when the world is far gone. Only humans can conceive the notion of time. Also, St. Augustine believes that God lives in a different world were time does not exist.
Augustine's argument changes our perception of time and space. St. Augustine states time is being thought as if it can be measured and sensed. When he talks about time he is talking about something that exists. St. Augustine feels that humans believe we can measure time. It is still speculation, because is not a feasible task or something easy to comprehend. St. Augustine believes that time intervals do not exist. Rather, that we understand time through memory, attention, and expectation. This is answer for understanding time, although I am not too convinced about it.
David Larosiliere
This one is a bit complicated, because time is a pretty complex topic. Kaven said that trying to fully understand time is just like trying to gauge justice -- our class wasn't even able to accomplish that.
ReplyDeleteI noticed that Augustine attempted to compare the relationship between God and time. God, as perceived by all religions, is a man/entity that created everything -- time would be one of those things. I think it's a bit vague, so it's not exactly possible for me to clarify in perfect detail.
One thing that really stood out to me is how he questioned God's duties before he created time. If God had nothing to do, why exactly did he create everything that we know?
Augustine uses the way God created the universe to puzzles over Genesis: "by your word you made [the creation]...but how did you speak?" As with his reading of the term "made" above, Augustine implies that the words of Genesis are not literally but spiritually hence very different from what we know and see. God created the universe with a word, but this word is not like normal speech. Normal speech is successive and a single word has a part that comes before and a part that follows. This was not the case with God's "word" of creation, because it would require duration, it was already there before God created it. God's word cannot have unfolded in time which did not yet exist but must be spoken eternally. It has no "becoming," and does not come into being over time. Rather, it is "spoken" continuously, and never changes. I think the relationship between God and time is very clear and to God, one day can be thousand days and thousand days could be a day.
ReplyDeleteJonathan Hicks
ReplyDeleteI find it difficult to describe time because time is something that we are aware of although we dont have any control over.Surely that makes it difficult to describe time.It's like time is a universal thing that have control over us all our live's and we can only sit and be aware of time without having any input or control over it's exsistence or functions.Time is difficult to discribe for that reason as well as other reasons such as how time plays such and important role in our lives for as long as we live.It's so difficult to describe time simply because time is truly independant of us, humans.In fact we need time to do everything.As it is,time doesn't need us for anything.
2. Why is it difficult to describe time?
ReplyDeleteI think it is difficult to describe time because the fundamentals of existence is missing. Everything has a beginning and an End. "Time" itself has neither of these. Or at least none that we can see or measure concretely. Time isn't a matter of years, months, weeks,days etc. The first historical recordings of time is still far from the beginning of time. The saying "don't let time pass you by" is in itself a contradiction. Like johnathan said above, time is independent. It does not wait for anybody or anything.
Why is it difficult to describe time?
ReplyDeleteWhen I think of time, I think of the words infinite, constant, unstoppable. Its just there passing by, we live in the now for if we focus on the past or dream of the future, we miss the now. Its hard to explain because we don't know when it exactly started, and when it will end. Time is the only thing that will always surround us, we can sense the seconds and years, but we can't sense time. So yeah its complicated to explain, to me time is relative, meaning that it has to do with your thinking, your perspective.
Time is a very difficult concept to explain because, although we have methods to measure time, we can not prove times existence. In book XI, Augustine attempts to acquire an explanation of what time is. Most would classify time into 3 categories: past, present and future. However, Augustine argues that neither the past nor future exists and that the present is the only time that exists. The present time is the only time that we can experience, the only time we live, but even then it is still hard to identify the present. Any duration of the present becomes past and future in a matter of seconds. Therefore, time is constantly moving into inexistence. With that being said, time is extremely difficult to explain and identify.
ReplyDelete