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guidance questions:
1. What does Socrates seek to know from Euthyphro? Be precise.
2. What's the relationship between gods and piety?
3. Though there is no conclusion, what have you learned from this discussion?
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How Socrates deconstructed Euthyphro’s argument on what is piety and impiety.
ReplyDeleteSocrates seeks to know if Euthyphro understands what piety is. Euthyphro begins to prevaricate when Socrates questions him on what piety and impiety means to the gods. Euthyphro couldn’t provide a precise explanation. He gave various examples of piety and impiety, but not a concrete definition. So Socrates began to question him further on the matter. Euthyphro replied, “Piety is that which is dear to the gods and impiety is that which is not dear to them. Socrates then began to deconstruct Euthyphro’s argument by using Euthyphro’s own words against him. With this in mind, Socrates still wanted an accurate definition on what was piety but Euthyphro failed to answer the question. This exposed Euthyphro’s lack of wisdom as he fled the scene without answering what is piety?
In sum, Socrates was making Euthyphro see that what is pious to one god may be impious to another. In my opinion, Socrates is insinuating that piety is in the eyes of the beholder.
Yohan Kim
ReplyDeleteSocrates was being trialed against Meletus. Socrates therefore confronts Euthyphro and urges him to educate Socrates about being “holy” which might help him in his trial. They discuss on piety and impiety, right and wrong for that matter. Plato made arguments that the gods themselves argue and fight amongst themselves. Which therefore can the gods themselves be always be pious? This discussion which Plato and Enthyphro had to was to me in sense of modern day a religious theologian arguing with an atheist. It was a discussion in which neither cannot understand each other nor prove each other wrong. Of course it was impossible to deny the existence of the Gods during Plato’s time.
Yohan Kim
"Euthyphro" by Plato
ReplyDelete1. What does Socrates seek to know from Euthyphro? Be precise.
2. What's the relationship between gods and piety?
3. Though there is no conclusion, what have you learned from this discussion?
The setting of "Euthyphro" by Plato is during the Socrates trail and was written in a conversation dialogue form between Euthyphro and Socrates. They discuss the topics of piety and impiety, right and wrong, and pious and impious. Socrates asks Euthyphro to tell him everything he knows about what is piety and impiety. He wanted to know what offended the gods. Euthyphro tells Socrates that piety is to prosecute someone who is "guilty of murder, sacrilege, or any other crimes". To not prosecute some is to be impiety. Socrates then asks Euthyphro to explain to him again what is piety and impiety because everything Euthyphro had said before were just examples of what piety and impiety could be and gave no general idea of what it is. Euthyphro said that piety are what the gods like and impiety is what they don't like. Socrates thought to himself that the goods things of a person are pious to the gods and the bad things are impious to them. Thats when he came a conclusion, certain things or actions are hated by some gods and loved by others. There is no right or wrong. To Socrates surprise Euthyphro had yet and could no answer his question. I believe that maybe its true that certain gods may like someone actions and other gods may hate it. I don't think that there is a good and bad, right and wrong, piety and impiety, or pious and impious. I think that the gods are very much like the humans in a way, they have different opinions about things and they don't all agree on everything.
Sheila Lopez
Euthyphro is overconfidence about his knowledge,so Socrates seeks knowledge from Euthyphro since he is facing charges of impiety, thinking he may learn to defend himself in his own trail. he then expresses his thought on how the gods are cruel and inconsistency, which lead him to ask Euthyphro to define "piety" (moral correctness or truth). but with every definition he find a flaw which leads to Socrates not learning anything that will help him defend himself in his trial.
ReplyDeleteso the point is even thought well all seeks knowledge now and then, it doesn't mean that the person we seek it from is not always right.
ganeshwari Latchman
Zenith Isidor
ReplyDeleteSocrates wants to learn from Euthyphro the knowledge he has about the nature of piety and impiety, of murder and of other offences to gods. Likewise, Socrates ask Euthyphro to give him an specific idea of what actions are consider to be piety and impiety to the gods. The relationship between the gods and piety according to Euthyphro description is that when a person does a piety action the gods are honer. However, if a person does an impiety action the gods are not honor with the bad action the person has committed. In this text, I learned that Socrates was testing Euthyphro's knowledge by making him analyze his idea about what was consider a piety and an impiety action to the Gods. Furthermore, even though Euthyphro refused to continue speaking about a piety and an impiety idea, Socrates knew that he was a wiser man than he thought and that he should use all his knowledge instead of hiding it.
Kunti Hanif
ReplyDeleteSocrates thought that Euthyphro was very wise because he stated that he had exact knowledge of piety and impiety. Socrates then persuaded Euthyphro to explain what piety and impiety realy is. He felt that Euhtyphro's wisdom will help him(Socrates) understand and prove himself wrong for he couldn't see what wrong he has done in order to be prosecuted.
According to the text, the gods have differences which sometimes cause dispute amongst them. Piety in the sight of some of the gods is seen as impiety by the others.
From the discussion between Socrates and Euthyphro, I have learned that some see piety as holy and pleasing; while others view the same piety as impiety. In essence, everyone does not agree on the same concept and meaning of pious and impious acts.
Sacrates speaks to Euthyphro because he wants to know the true definintion of piety and impiety. He wants to be instructed by Euthyphro so that he can defend himself against Meletus. He hopes to be enlighted as he calls it and tell Meletus that he was only acting out of ignorance and that he will now live a better life.
ReplyDeleteEuthyphro gives several answers to Socrates' question about the nature of piety. At first he says that acting in a certain way determines piety or impiety but after that he revises his definition. He says that piety is defined by what is dear to the gods and impiety is what isn't dear to them. Socrates then birngs up an interesting point. He says that at times the gods disagree with one another. At times what is believed to be right and just by one of them is considered to be unjust by another. Socrates says that Euthyphro's definition needs to be changed becasue if piety is defined by being dear to the gods and impiety is defined as being something that is not dear then, how can you tell what is right and wrong when the gods disagree with each other? After that Euthyphro again alters his definition and says that piety is pleasing the gods in deed and word by praying to them and making sacrifics.
After all of their disscusion they don't really reach a conclusion. The thing I learned from this text is to question what makes things good or bad and to really examine things and not just accept them because that is what is practiced.
Jonathan Hicks
ReplyDeleteThe meaning of piety is devoutness like a christian's obligations in their religion.Impiety is like a person's lack of concern or disrespect of a person or thing.The relationship between gods and piety is like a moral obligation to be true and protect.Just as parent's most of the time is true to their children and surely the parents want to protect their children.I've learn that there is going to come a time when I am going to have to judge and be judged.I am focused on when it's my time to judge that I seek for the truth before making my decision.Likewise, when it's time for me to be judged that it be based on the truth,and not hearsay.
Euthyphro is confronted by Socrates here about the meaning of piety and impiety, about being holy.
ReplyDeleteThere's a huge disagreement here, and it was of special significance to me because its the same now as it was back then -- everyone dismisses the religious/supernatural ideas of others for their own.
In essence, what they argued about what is pious and impious to the gods is the same concept with how humans disagree amongst one another. Socrates also introduces the idea that gods argue amongst themselves -- what separates a god from a human if this is the case?
Syron A. Singh
ReplyDeleteIn the scene, Euthyphro is being questioned about his knowledge and wisdom about piety and impiety by Socrates. Euthyphro gives examples of what they may be such as his very own situation with him in suit of his father as a murderer or another murderer. Socrates is not given the clear answer, but becomes more aware of pious and impious is what gods hate or love. He still questions if all good are to agree or disagree upon something whether it be just or unjust might not be arguable wrong in some nature. Gods as any other people can have differences in opinions about a certain matter and see something as right when it could be wrong all together but you as being piety would follow in their decision or being impiety would not follow but question why would the decision go a certain way if you see it in a different manner. In other words it’s your faith in what you interpret their decision as righteous or unrighteous and decide to act upon it or not.
Socrates confronts Euthyphro and tell him about why he is being trialed he wanted enthrus to be present with him at the court so he compares himselve to him as of equal thoughts and same offences so people would know he has not done anything different to deserve a trail.
ReplyDeleteSocrates did what he usually does to people who are known and claim to be wise. By asking them about things they say for deeper explanation but Euthyphro did not understand his claim just like many others who claimed to be wise.
Socrates asked Euthyphro what was piety and impiety also if Enthyphro’s trail of his father was pious. After Socrates asked Euthyphro many questions it was clear he could not justify his claims to know what was pious or not. Euthyphro rather was learning what was pious or not from Socrates .
I think Socrates was not seeking knowledge from Euthyphro but rather to teach him that he did not know anything about the will of the gods.
Socrates is an excellent conversationalist, where Socrates engages Euthyphro in a discussion over piety. It's amazing how Socrates is able to start the discussion as one who wishes to be taught by Euthphyro and be a student but towards the end it becomes clear that Socrates has switched positions and has become the teacher. Socrates wants to know Euthyphro's definition of of piety where Euthyphro gives five definitions in which Socrates does not except the definitions and continues to ask questions. Reading this leads me to think since Socrates never gave a definition of his own personal opinion of what piety is that maybe Socrates knows that in actuality there is no true definition of what holiness is and he was exposing Euthyphros ignorance . A mere human can not have the ability to give a clear definition of what piety is.
ReplyDeleteIn this dialogue Socrates questions a man named Euthyphro about piety and impiety. I personally feel during the time of Socrates people weren’t as logical are they are now. The circumstances are also really different as well. The system in which the Greeks used at the time to me seem very flawed now thanks to Socrates. Euthyphro makes a claim that piety is that which is dear or loved by the gods. Even by the end of the passage it seems that Euthyphro isn’t clear on it himself anymore. Socrates creates this huge flaw in Euthyphro’s knowledge by just asking a series of logical questions. In the end I still wonder is piety is something that can really be measure?
ReplyDelete-Kaven Kim
Socrates wants to find out what is holy,or how it is defined. He looks at Euthyphro for the answer.Euthyphro gives answers that are unleading, Socrates whats more depth in identifying what is holy. Are the gods holy? In Socrates thoughts, they are not because gods querall. Euthyphro's attempt to define holiness is depicted as holy being what is accepted of by all the gods. Socrates sets up an argument to show that the two cannot be equivalent.
ReplyDeleteCan holiness be just, or justice, or taking care of the gods. Euthyphro expalains this as "looking after the gods; Socrates is quite puzzled.This is why than try to find a better definition, Euthyphro leaves a bit frustrated by Socrates' questioning.Leaving this dialogue without a conclusion.
Alea Smalls
Socrates seeks to get the exact meaning between piety and impiety from Ethyphro, and Ethyphro responded examples of what both meant instead of the concrete meaning of them. From what I understood, Socrates wanted to acknowledge and make a point to Ethyphro on his decision of accusing his father for murder. Reason Ethyphro was accusing his father was to piety social commandments to the gods, thinking that that’s what all gods want. Socrates gave examples of a horsemen brings attention to horses which refines them and make good animals to domesticate; could he be making a point that not all gods love the same thing and they all don’t bring attention to same things, and result in disagreements with others, in result his confession maybe of both piety and impiety against testifying and accusing father in the eyes of some gods. The relationship between piety and gods is that piety signify the liking of the gods.
ReplyDeleteFrom this discussion I believe Socrates proved his point without doing it directly, as far as Ethyphro despite any point or refusing to give a direct answer to Socrates question, it seems he didn’t really care and will continue on his final decision, that proves his strong belief of what he preaches as young as he is mentioned to be.
Jennifer N. Villalba
In this writing, Socrates asks Euthyphro to teach him about holiness so that he might be able to better defend himself from Meletus’ charges. Euthyphro claims to know everything about what is holy, and agrees to enlighten Socrates. By the end of their conversation, however, Socrates learns nothing, because, through logic, he disputes everything Euthyphro offers as a defining characteristic of al things holy.
ReplyDeleteIn writing this, Plato sort of suggests that there isn’t necessarily a single, defining trait that makes something holy, or at least one that has been realized.
In the end, Euthyphro becomes frustrated that Socrates would not accept any of his suggestions, and perhaps also Euthyphro realizes he himself doesn’t know what makes something holy.
-Travis Fought
i believe that socrates want to know two things from Euthyphro. one of the things is why is being charge with impiety? but he learned that the god use to fight with each other. he also realized that he could dont have to agree with one another. one god might agree with something but the other gods might not agree. like when euthyphro prosceuted his father he stated that zues agree but another god wont.
ReplyDeleteWhat is the relationship between gods and piety?
the relationship between gods and piety is that u have a full of obligation to the god.. so if u believe is the god you will furfill the full piety of the god.
The answer that Socrates seeks from Euthyphro is “what is piety?” What Socrates wanted was a straight answer from Euthyphro and not examples of what being a supreme being was. Socrates is intrigued in his religious point of view and wants to know what is godly and ungodly. Euthyphro tells Socrates that that piety or pious or impious is what pleases and displeases the gods. Also how gods disagree with each other, just as gods did fight and had differences and were punished for them so should everyone else. The relationship between the gods and piety is something that they hold dear to them. In this text Socrates seems to be the one convincing Euthyphro of what piety and impiety is. Euthyphro seems to agree with everything and every contradiction and every statement and question that Socrates asks him. What I understood about this reading is that just how to gods there are things that are found unpleasing and pleasing (piety and impiety) and how people just like gods are bound to have some form of disagreement.
ReplyDeleteIn the court of law, Socrates was doing exactly what he did his whole life by educating by questioning others so call wisdom. He used this same tactic to expose the non-credibility of Euthyphro accusations. Socrates pursued to know if Euthyphro truly understood the true meaning of piety and impiety. When Euthyphro was questioned by Socrates regarding the true meaning of piety and impiety, Euthyphro couldn't give a precise enough answer. This led Socrates to continually ask more questions to receive a more clearer answer than the incomplete ones being given. This showed that Euthyphro lacked true knowledge of piety, and impiety. This showed that Euthyphro had no true understanding of the two, and that his accusation held no credibility. Euthyphro claimed that Socrates was an evil doer and an atheist, but at the same time he accused him of teaching of other gods from other cities beside Athens. This contradiction proved that Socrates did believe in god and wasn’t an atheist, though Euthyphro tried to persuade others to think so.
ReplyDeleteWhen it comes to the relationship between gods and piety, the relationship can vary because what may be good to one god may be bad to another god. In those times it’s believed that the gods had disagreements also; this supports the notion of a particular situation, or thing being viewed differently between gods.
What I have learned from this discussion is that no matter how much knowledge one acquires, even in a lifetime, there is always much more to be learned. As long as we as people come to this conclusion will can possibly become wise ourselves.
Euthyphro is by far the best reading I've read in a while. Socrates and Euthyphro have a conversation about what is just and unjust in the sight man and the gods. Euthyphro, himself has a dilemma within himself on what he calls piety with regards to taking his father to court for murder. He tells Socrates what is he is doing and he's looking for his approval. But Socrates doesn't agree with what he doing and he asks him for his reason and does it make sense. Euthyphro goes on to explain that is right in the sight of the gods to prosecute his father for murder, even though the murder in which he is accusing his father of committing, was a murderer himself. Socrates promotes Euthyphro to think about what it is he's doing and in the long term who is this going to benefit. Euthyphros is only concern with pleasing the god’s verses what is an automatic, not going against his father,
ReplyDeleteSocrates had been one of the most interesting and influential thinkers in his time. His dedication to careful reasoning transformed society. Since he sought genuine knowledge rather than a victory over his opponent, Socrates applies the same logical tricks used and developed by many of the Sophists to a new purpose, the pursuit of the truth. He had a willingness to bring everything into question while he was bring tried by the young thinker, Meletus. His determination was to accept nothing less than an adequacy of the true nature of things. This is what he makes evident, of the exponent of his critical philosophy.
ReplyDeleteThe premise of the passage was Socrates engaging in an intensely critical debate with an over-confident young man, Euthyphro. Euth is perfectly certain of his own ethics, even in the situation of prosecuting his own father in court, Socrates asks him to define what "piety" or moral duty really is. His demands here are for something more than merely a list of actions. Instead, Socrates wanted Euth to provide a general definition of what is the very essence of piety. Every answer Euth offers is subjected to Socrates's critical thinking, until he becomes uncertain, showing his lack of wisdom.
Socrates refutes all of Euth's suggestions that, what makes the right actions right? His answer is that if the gods love or approve of them, that which makes them right. Socrates had a problem with the unequivocal question of what is wrong and what is right and that question will often cause disputes. The gods are likely to disagree among themselves about moral matters no less often than we do. Thereby, making some actions can be both right and wrong. More importantly, Socrates approaches the dilemma in the form of deceptively formed questions.
Is it pious to be loved by the gods because it is pious? Or is it pious because it is appreciated by the gods? Nothing can work for which Euth intends to define of piety. If right actions are pious only because the gods love them, then moral rightness is entirely arbitrary. Do the gods love right actions only because they are already right? Then there must be some non-divine source of morals and values.
Socrates wants to learn the meaning of piety and impiety. He wants to be instructed by Euthyphro so that he an be ready to question Meletus. Socrates only was looking to be enlightened in hopes that he can defend his actions and say that it was all ignorance on his part, but now he will lead a better life. Piety is described as what is held dear/ special to the gods, but impiety is the opposite, whats not worth anything. This brings about a huge discussion among them, as Socrates points out that at time the gods will not always agree on the same thing, meaning that everything that was to be believed right, will now be the opposite. All of this contradicts Euthuphros unreasonable explanations, its just makes everything seem like there is not a real definition or basis of what is good and bad. The gods are just like the humans, in which the humans have their own opinion of what is wrong and right, so in reality their is no right and wrong. I learned that Euthyphro seems blind sided by the way the gods work, that he has taken the gods practices as full knowledge upon himself, when he was being kept question, he had no real answer, he is only responding based on what he was taught to believe, but in reality he has no clear knowledge. The gods are like humans, they each have their own opinion, so what is right and wrong cant really be judged, even the gods don't know.
ReplyDeleteIsabella Soteldo
ReplyDeleteIn Eutyphro, Socrates and Eutyphro are having a conversation. They are talking about what things are fair or unfair, and that it doesn't pity is not taken into consideration when you are deciding a trial. Socrates says that that empity may be the reason for his trial, becasue the people do not agree with the things that he says.
Socrates is seeking knowledge from Eutyphro , because Eutyphro seems to be some what a professor of Socrates, or someone that challenges in a way what Socrates thinks.
Eutyphro says that the Gods have pity and not empathy, he states this with an exampe of zeus the god judging his father, just like he is doing.
In the end, Socrates says that he was seeking Eutyphro's opinion on what is pitey and empitey and if he told him he would admit that he was wrong and that he would change his way of life, but Eutyphro left without an asnwer.
This is such an interesting story, because it teaches how to differentiate from what is right and what is wrong to what should be right and what should be wrong.
Euthyphro comes up with the differentia: Piety is the part of justice concerned with the "care of" the gods, while the remaining part of justice concerns the "care of men." Socrates says that Euthyphro seems to him "to put that very well," but he still needs "a bit of information." Knowing Socrates, this requirement for "a bit of information" can be ominous indeed. The difficulty is over the meaning of "care." Socrates does not think that Euthyphro can mean care of the gods in the same way that horse breeders care for horses; but then Euthyphro surprisingly asserts that he does mean it that way. It takes a few lines to establish that Euthyphro must mean a different kind of care, since horse breeders taking care of horses, or hunters taking care of dogs, benefit horses or dogs in ways that human piety cannot possibly benefit the gods. When Socrates asks, "Is piety then...also to benefit the gods and make them better?" Euthyphro realizes his mistake and answers no. So Socrates must ask what kind of care of the gods piety would be.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteResponse to "Euthyphro" by Plato
ReplyDelete1. What does Socrates seek to know from Euthyphro? Be precise.
At first Socrates wanted to know why his friend Euthyphro was waiting for the king. Upon realising Euthyphro was there to prosecute his own father, Socrates begins a line of question meant to test weather or not Euthyphro can justify his suit. In order to do this he questions Euthyphro on his reasons, which turn out to only be a general sense of piety based on the idea that he knows the gods will. Socrates then begins to question him to the point where Euthyphro realises that at the very least he cannot or should not condemn his own father based on the idea that Piety is a truth and an answer in itself.
2. What's the relationship between gods and piety?
Gods are the "judges" of spiritual law. Piety is the way to follow those laws.
3. Though there is no conclusion, what have you learned from this discussion?
I don't know about something i learned but the conclusion this piece seemed to be getting to was that "Piety" and "good" cannot be the determanents of a situation alone. As something that is good to one may not be to another, these things must be weighed with scrutiny and a detailed eye. Socrates is not saying that Euthyphros father should not be judged for his actions, he is only saying that to judge ones father simply on a moral code, as it were, is disregarding the details of the situation and acting as blindly as a bat without sonar except thinking that because you are a bat you shouldn't need eyes anyway. You are also not a bat if reading this.
I don't think Socrates meant to 'use' Euthyphro's words against him. Or maybe he did but i think he was played right into Euthyphro's hands. Euthyphro provided answers for socrates when questioned but they were all based on examples and very vague. In doing this, he sort of (to me) manipulated Socrates into saying exactly what Euthyphro himself said but in a more in-depth way. So while it seems that Socrates was finding ways to 'use' Euthyphro's words against him, Socrates basically said the same thing Euthyphro said. I came to this conclusion based on Euthyphro's reaction to what Socrates is saying to him. Their whole conversation revolves around Socrates talking, saying "you said.." directed to Euthyphro in a rebutting manner but Euthyphro just smiles and agrees with him calmly. It gives off the feeling that he is patronizing Socrates in a way and that he's thinking "go on, you're getting it...slowly." lol
ReplyDeleteIn the conversation between socrates and euthyhro.socrates wants to again knowledge on how to defend himself and question meletus in the court room.socrates who later learn that euthyhro accused his own father of murder.but socrates was suprise that someone will take they own father court.socrates wanted to gain knowledge from euthyhro and began to ask him question.socrates then learn about piety and impiety.but euthyhro did not give socrates any example of piety and impiety.the great philosoher that socrates is keep asking question unit euthyhro define, piety is which dear to the god and impiety which is not dear to the gods.
ReplyDeleteandrew andalall
The conversation about the goodness of Euthyphro's lawsuit was not an innocent game or just an excuse to engage in a logical exercise about the art of meaning. Socrates was aware that his own life was at risk as he was approaching the trial. Euthyphro's interpretation of the divine justice may have started public laughter, but Socrates' teachings started public commotion that would turn into something more threatening which was the death penalty. Socrates had a feeling that his case would not be just a common court case without consequences if for no other reason than just because he knew that the decision of a jury was always unpredictable.
ReplyDelete